Monday, 21 February 2011

Skai’s 1821: undermining national feeling



I’ve been watching Skai’s much-touted series on the Greek War of Independence – 1821. Its revisionism, distortions and political motivation have aroused a lot of outrage, largely justified in my opinion. Nevertheless, the series – and the discussion programmes that take place after each episode – is worth watching, since it’s always valuable to immerse oneself in the most important events and personalities of modern Greek history. (The series and discussion programmes can be seen here and on youtube).

A couple of points emerging from the third programme (first part, above), which concentrated on the siege and fall of Tripolitsa and the events at Agia Lavra that began the insurrection.

Regarding Agia Lavra, the programme was at pains to stress that Bishop Germanos’ raising the flag of revolution surrounded by Greek fighters led by Kolokotronis is a myth. Apparently, such an event never happened; it was an invention of  the French historian of the Greek War of Independence François Pouqueville.

Now, whether the events at Agia Lavra happened as they’ve entered Greek national consciousness, or happened at a different time, in a different place, with different participants, is irrelevant; and for the programme-makers to make such a big deal of this exposes their agenda, which is to cast aspersions on the entire 1821 project and imply that generations of Greeks have been raised on lies.

And on the massacre of 8,000 Muslims and Jews that took place after Greek forces took Tripolitsa in the summer of 1821, it is despicable to suggest that this brutality was equivalent to the massacres against civilian Greeks that took place in Smyrna, Constantinople, Crete, Cyprus, Chios, Macedonia and so on, and that Greeks and Turks are therefore equally culpable when it comes to atrocity and barbarism.

There is no attempt to contextualise the Greek violence, committed by a long-oppressed people seeking to liberate their country; nor any attempt to put into context Turkish violence, which was ingrained in the Ottoman system whose subject peoples lived under permanent threat of massacre and even extermination, their physical existence only being tolerable to the Turks as long as they remained passive.

Permeating the Skai series is an implication that the Greek War of Independence and the formation of a Greek nation-state was not a necessary and righteous enterprise; the suggestion that in their historical relations Greeks and Turks are morally equivalent; and that, and here’s the rub, all this tension and potential for conflict that still exists between Greece and Turkey is artificial and it is only nationalist lies and myths – typically purveyed in more ‘traditional’ Greek historiography – preventing ‘friendship’ between the two peoples.

40 comments:

lastgreek said...

The creators of this documentary suffer from Stockholm syndrome.

If anyone in Greece wishes for a return to the "good ol' days" of Ottoman occupation, they have the option of immigrating to Turkey. Of course, it's highly recommended that before departure ... they leave behind their Greek language, Greek religion, and Greek culture (probably any leftist thoughts,too, be it of Greek origin or not)---that is, no Greek, hurray for allah akbar, and three cheers for Mongol culture.

As for Castoriadis, I can't comment because I have not read any of his works. However, if it's true that he favoured open borders, a laughable proposition---well, let's just say his writings on democracy have no bearing in the modern world.

John Akritas said...

I don't really care whether C. believed in open borders or not. Castoriadis' writings are not religious texts only open to select initiates or rigid interpretation in which only one set of conclusions can be drawn. I find interesting some of the things he says, not others. These Castoriadis fundamentalists are ridiculous. As H. said, who appointed them as defenders of his thought? They can go get stuffed.

Anonymous said...

Sky is a self seeking commercially interested organisation with expansionist ambitions seeking greater penetration in Greece and Cyprus. Their interest in historical accuracy is scanty compared to their major concerns. Trying to use 'nationalist feelings' for discretely advertising their services is likely to backfire in more than one country. Referring to historical accuracy I can recommend Dr. Andreas Constantinos recent book on "America, Britain and the Cyprus Crisis of 1974" It is his PhD thesis on modern history but very accessible and for once I felt i got nearer to understanding what really happened in 1974 in Cyprus.
Manthos

John Akritas said...

I don't think, M. that Greek Skai is related to Murdoch's Sky. From what I've seen of Skai, it's a little pompous; but Greek TV is generally awful – but isn't this the case with TV universally? I don't know Constantinos' book. I'll look out for it.

Anonymous said...

http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17779&Itemid=170

I wonder when the muslim hordes that have taken over Athens will tell the Greeks to bow down to Allah!!! Multiculturalism is a failure and a Greeks are cutting their own throats by believing in this failed social experiment of the left lunatics.

Το πρώτο σημάδι αυτού που φοβόταν η χριστιανική μειονότητα των Κοπτών της Αιγύπτου έκανε την εμφάνισή του στην πλατεία Τahrir την περασμένη Παρασκευή αλλά έγινε γνωστό σήμερα.

Ένας γνωστός ανώτατος μουσουλμάνος κληρικός γνωστός και από τηλεοπτική εκπομπή που παρουσιάζει στο κανάλι Al Jazeera, ζήτησε από τους Χριστιανούς που ήταν συγκεντρωμένοι μαζί με αρκετούς άλλους χιλιάδες μουσουλμάνους να γονατίσουν κατά τη διάρκεια της προσευχής ως ένδειξη υποταγής στον Αλλάχ!

Ο Yusuf al-Qaradawi πνευματικός ηγέτης της μουσουλμανικής αδελφότητας αν και υπογράμμισε τη συμμετοχή των χριστιανών Κοπτών στην εξέγερση της Αιγύπτου αλλά και υπενθυμίζοντας τη συμμετοχή των χριστιανών Κοπτών μαρτύρων -όπως τους αποκάλεσε- στη μάχη εναντίον των Ρωμαίων και των Βυζαντινών στη συνέχεια όμως τους κάλεσε να γονατίσουν για την πραγματοποίηση της μουσουλμανικής προσευχής. «και τώρα σας προσκαλώ να γονατίσετε μαζί μας για την προσευχή».

«Είτε το εννοούσε είτε όχι αυτό ήταν μια έμμεση πράξη προσταγής υποταγής στον Ισλάμ και τον Αλλάχ» δήλωσε χριστιανός κόπτης που ήταν παρών στη συγκέντρωση αλλά θέλησε να κρατήσει την ανωνυμία του για ευνόητους λόγους «εκεί ήταν 250.000 άτομα συγκεντρωμένα και οι συντριπτική πλειοψηφία ήταν μουσουλμάνοι. Έτσι για εμάς τους χριστιανούς που ήμασταν περικυκλωμένοι από χιλιάδες μουσουλμάνους η εντολή για να γονατίσουμε για την προσευχή ήταν ιδιαίτερα εκφοβιστική» συμπλήρωσε.

Κανένας από τους Κόπτες χριστιανούς που ήταν στην πλατεία δεν γονάτισε.

Αιγύπτιοι χριστιανοί πάντως θεωρούν πως η «παράκληση» του al-Qaradawi δεν ήταν τυχαία αντίθετα αντικατοπτρίζει μια πιο ενεργή παρουσία του μουσουλμανικού κλήρου στα πολιτικά πράγματα της χώρας με απρόβλεπτες συνέπειες κυρίως για την χριστιανική μειονότητα της Αιγύπτου.

Τμήμα ειδήσεων defencenet.gr

Hermes said...

Sad story for the Copts. All those CNN liberals, human rights happy clappers, Obama idolators, are going to see what Islamic democracy is all about very soon. Just check out the Gaza strip and Lebanon for a guidepost. I predict within 10 years there will be 50 mosques in Athens and animals will be slaughtered in Syntagma Square for the Festival of Eid.

lastgreek said...

Isn't "Islamic democracy" an oxymoronic phrase?

I don't see what the world's largest open air prison---the Gaza Strip---or Lebanon, for that matter, have to do with what is unfolding in the Middle East.



Trivia: The greatest Greek of the 20th century was Claude Shannon. Einstein was an intellectual midget next to him. That's how brilliant Shannon was.

Anonymous said...

Last Greek,
I applaud your your sentiment and wish life could have that simple. I presume you are willing to accord to persons of different ethnicity and colour from your own, the privilege of being human. I do wish humans had a better record of respecting each other but history proves me wrong. What would you do with a 'mixed' society, which is much the fate of most western countries? The UK could never boast 'purity of race' and our beloved proud Greek race is not only the direct descendant of Socrates, Aristotle, Plato et. al. Get real.
Manthos

Anonymous said...

I agree with you, Mantho. This Last Greek is a foul-mouthed loud mouth, who needs to learn to express himself better. And, John Akritas, why do you allow all these racist and extremist comments on your blog? Don't you realise they make you and your blog – which is generally good and interesting – look bad? These people are taking advantage of you and your blog.

Anonymous said...

@Last Greek: Colonel Gadaffi spewing his nonsensical garbage is more articulate and less foul-mouthed and obnoxious than you. You are a poor man's Gaddafi. Keep going.

lastgreek said...

@Last Greek: Colonel Gadaffi spewing his nonsensical garbage is more articulate and less foul-mouthed and obnoxious than you. You are a poor man's Gaddafi.

The dead, mutilated, and wounded Libyans---casualties of Gaddafi's thugs---would beg to differ.

Seriously ... You couldn't come up with a better comparison?

You must be flustered, eh?

Anonymous said...

'''''@Last Greek: Colonel Gadaffi spewing his nonsensical garbage is more articulate and less foul-mouthed and obnoxious than you. You are a poor man's Gaddafi. Keep going.'''''

I’m not here to defend ‘Last Greek’ (I haven’t really studied his comments tbh), but to compare him to Gaddafi? Really? You aren’t exactly covering yourself in glory Anon, let’s put it that way. In fact, you should apologize for making such a ridiculous statement.

Anonymous said...

Last Greek.....
The Greek Air-Force is very well-known for its extensively highly-trained pilots. Don't forget that their best squad beat America's best squad with an incredible 17-3 at NATO's biggest airforce exercise "Red Flag" which took place at Nellis Airbase of Nevada in 2007.

Australian air force?? Don't comment if you don't know what the hell you are talking about!! You seem to be an idiot when it comes to attacking the Greek Professional Military .... big bloody difference between the kids that do their required time and the professionals.

P.S. My first cousin is an F16 pilot and instructor in the Greek Air Force...my Dad's best friend instructs pilots in NATO in Canada (a Greek guy who immigrated to Canada after finishing his work for the Greek air force)...
The amount of dog fights the Greeks engage over the Med against the turks is worth 1000xs the experience of some aussie playing war game with their compatriots or putting 1000 hours over Brisbane. As for weapons and maintaining equipment it is top notch....meets or exceeds NATO standards. Quite frankly further discussions and enlightenment regarding the capability is quite pointless as you believe the Greek Professional Military is the same as the kids doing their military service.
Stick to non-military analysis and appraisals as you lack both first hand or second hand knowledge.
Signed
SpartanReserve ..... MOLON LABE

Hermes said...

John, you have probably noticed the outbreak of Neo-Ottomanism amongst the bourgeois Anglo-American press with the release of Philip Mansel's book, The Levant:
http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&source=hp&biw=1276&bih=571&q=Levant+Mansell&rlz=1W1GGLL_en&aq=f&aqi=g2&aql=&oq=&fp=5305acaac95b6150

It is all sickening stuff. The subtext of this book and the sycophantic reviewers is that all the people of the Levantine cities: Thessaloniki, Constantinople, Alexandria, Beirut and Smyrna lived peacefully under a benign Ottoman rule until calls for self determination and national sovereignty (which started with the Greeks) ruined this supposed Utopia. Further, if only the modern day Levantines would only accept Neo-Ottoman rule under the guidance of liberal cosmopolitian elites of the US and EU.

John Akritas said...

Yes, I did read a review of it a short while ago and imagined the sort of book it would be since I've got Mansel's book on Constantinople – I got it cheap and only read the opening chapter on the fall of the City and the closing chapter on how it nearly wound up in our hands again; the stuff in the middle, on the Ottoman occupation, is of no interest to me. I also note that the reviewer of the Levant book for the Guardian was Norman Stone – a long-term spokesman for Turkey – and Noel Malcolm wrote the review for the Telegraph. Malcolm is another Ottoman apologist, who often preaches Albanian and Bosnian causes.

Anonymous said...

Lastgreek
Wow you read periodicals and you chat up foreign pilots. You are an expert...LOL!!
Due to OPSEC/PERSEC I can't reveal their names but my information is from extremely reliable first hand sources. But you are so knowledgeable from reading magazines and speaking to foreign pilots. Dumbass!
Have you been on a air force base in Greece? Have you seen the professionalism of our pilots and the ground crews? Have you been to the SF bases in Greece? No. But I have.
Now I know your a douche bag...you don't know anyone in the Greek Air Force and no one in the SF units and you made your conclusion from periodicals (written by some desk monkey) and foreign pilots who always say they are the best. I've heard the Saudi pilots are the best...yeah they were flapping their trap hole at an Air show. But actual results show otherwise. Greek pilots are the one of the best in the world.
I am consistent ... but your reading comprehension is lacking. It is well documented that the dog-fights being carried out in the Aegean are a 1000x better training. When do aussies or anyone else deal with dog-fights on a daily basis like the Greeks do against the turks.... No one. These dog-fights have gone "hot" before since the two-sides are carrying weapons. The dog-fights are a daily problem. A lot goes unreported. And thanks to GAP the savior of the Greek state Greek pilots are told to stand-down as to not provoke a hot episode.

So do us a favor lastgreek stick to reading your magazines and trying to pick up foreign pilots and fantasying about Top Gun love affair with them.....
SpartanReserve

Hermes said...

John, I have read Mansel's book on Constantinople and his spiritual partner's, Mazower's book on Thessaloniki. Of course, you are right that the Ottoman occupation is uninteresting and irrelevant to humanity; however, I did notice in reading these books that it was the Greeks, not the other races including the Jews who are often thought of as being the exemplars of modernity, that were the epitome of enlightenment ideas and action. It is amazing that in all these so called Levantine cities, the Greeks were the most dynamic, intelligent and perhaps even agressive element. And this is not only due to the French Enlightenment, as some dim witted Greek commentators seem to think, but also because the Greeks were themselves reinterpreting ideas from ancient Classical and Hellenistic Greece and late Byzantium for the service of the ethnos. It is one of the greatest historical sagas of all time that needs to be taught to the barbarians around us to remind them of the meaning of vision, courage, dignity and honour.

lastgreek said...

Edit: "complex sentence," not "compound sentence."

lastgreek said...

Of course, you are right that the Ottoman occupation is uninteresting and irrelevant to humanity.

I'd like to add that the same can be said of the modern state of Turkey---unless of course heroin is relevant to humanity.

John Akritas said...

That's a very interesting point about the Greeks being the agents of modernity in the Ottoman empire. I was watching episodes 4 and 5 of Skai's 1821 and a similar point was made about the revolution being an enterprise inspired by modernity; though the Skai commentators' interpretation was that the modern was represented by people like Mavrocordatos – cosmopolitans, who had the intellectual and personal abilities that enabled them to move smoothly in European circles and were keen to accept the 'help' of European powers – while they condemn the 'traditional', more localist, nationalist elements, represented by Kolokotronis and the Captains. Naturally, they want to draw a parallel with today's Greece, whose crisis they blame on Greece's failure to adopt European modernity and the continued presence of the traditional, the localist and the nationalist – Greece's Kolokotronis mentality.

Of course, it struck me that the great project of these particular type of modernisers – to embed Greece in the EU, adopt the euro and so on – has become a catastrophe and threatens to turn Greece into a vassal state.

Anonymous said...

lastgreek....
you are quite the douche bag....
all your counter arguments are weak to fail.

there are more accidents in the US Air Force ... so by your definition they are not good aviators....are you serious?!
get real douche bag...

where do you live? In Greece or Australia? If in Greece....
If so I'll gladly introduce you to some of the warriors and we will see if you open your mouth and spew you know things....from reading magazines and playing "computer general" and "aviation expert"....

You ask for my age? Are you a child molester trolling for young boys on the internet? I guess you are.

You actually think you can impress me on your incomplete education qualifications....guess what douche bag...I've taken all those courses and more. Your education neither impresses or impresses anyone else.
Worst of all you actually spend about a half an hour composing your responses LOL!!
I however, spend less than 2 minutes to type this comment ... yes, in fashion that is not eloquent as you but gets the point across that a long haired bearded living in his parent's basement douche bag like you have absolutely no idea about the Greek military....
SpartanReserve

Hermes said...

John, the SKAI series sets up the Greek Europeanisers and localists as two diametrically opposed camps. However, that was not always the case. In literature, this is evident. Dionysios Solomos, who was part of a learned literature and legal milieu in the Ionian Islands, was inspired by ancient Greece, Byzantine novels, Cretan Renaissance poetry, Ionian Island cantades (local song forms) and ideas stemming from the French Enlightenment. Within this man was embodied a fusion of European and local ideas and traditions. There were many like him. Arguably, Capodistrias embodied these supposed polarities.

Hermes said...

Precisely. I could not have said it better.

On another issue, the below link is for a recent story from Turkey and refutes the increasingly common belief amongst Greeks that Turkey is an overwhelming economic, political and military power; and therefore, we should submit to their diktats and become perfect Neo-Ottoman subjects i.e. not pursuing our sovereign rights in the Aegean, Thrace and Cyprus. It also demonstrates the level of discontent in Turkey and that all is not well in our “peaceful neighbor”. The article comments on an incident reported in the Turkish media, which it believes is indicative of the situation in Kurdistan (south-east Turkey). Four policemen went to the house of a Kurd and asked him to accompany them to the police station regarding a decision of a Turkish court. In the police car, the Kurd smashed the car window and shouted to the passersby to free him. The passersby stopped the police car. Shortly, more than a hundred people gathered, supposedly Kurds, and smashed the police car windows, freed the Kurd and then attacked the police officers. Three officers managed to escape but one was left on the ground unconscious. The crowd expanded to over 1000 people to confront the Turkish Special Forces which arrived shortly after and fired into the air and burst tear gas to disperse the crowd. Thereafter, there was clashes in the city. As the article states, “the incident shows the determination of the local people to disallow the normal functioning the Turkish state”. “We have said before a country which cannot exercise full sovereign control over an area of 100 000 square metres within its own territory cannot threaten a country like Greece”.

http://infognomonpolitics.blogspot.com/2011/03/n.html

Hermes said...

John, on your previous point, Thanos Veremis is also trying to drum up support and probably funds for his Europeanising think-tank, the utterly discredited, ELIAMEP.

lastgreek said...

"I wont pay" movement spreads across Greece

In light of austerity measures, citizens ignore tolls, transit ticket costs, even bills for healthcare

link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41723432/ns/business-world_business/

lastgreek said...

[Fun Trivia]

Did you guys know that Gaddafi's son Saif Al-Islam Gaddafi--you know, the bald ugly one who has been talking to the English media--has a freakin' PhD from the London School of Economics? Have you heard the guy talk? He's semi-literate at best.

Now, what does that tell you about LSE?

Isn't it ironic? We hear in the mainstream media of Erdogan telling the regimes of Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya that they must relinquish power to the people. However, there is no mention in the same mainstream media of Erdogan's silence of his country's illegal, 36-year occupation of northern Cyprus.

Turkey: an A+ grade in public relations.

Mainstream media: epic fail.

lastgreek said...

Hermes,

Maybe you can help with this puzzling question:

If diplomatic relations are not bad enough, why the hell is there increasing bilateral business, trade, and tourism between Greece and an outlaw state such as Turkey?

John Akritas said...

It's a shame a lot of Greeks have bought into Turkey's delusions about its powerful economy and inevitable regional hegemony. Like all societies, Turkey has its cracks and divisions, though I guess the AKP idea is to paper them over with this appeal to a universal Muslim identity. As for the Kurds, I guess it's the same with all national minorities – including the Muslims in Thraki – having now got some breathing space thanks to liberalisation in Turkish society, they don't want to take part in Turkish liberalism but want to push their national aspirations as far as they can take them – liberal societies are hamstrung in their abilities to keep repressing national minorities. That's the Turks' problem: the more liberal they become, the more problems they create for themselves; and yet the days of Kemalist repression appear over too.

Anonymous said...

Guys and girls, the TCs are rallying again in the North, in their thousands. Thoughts?

Anonymous said...

*Note* It happened yesterday, my bad.

John Akritas said...

I don't think what the TCs say and do is that relevant. Turkey doesn't give a monkey's about the TCs and their demands and the TCs are now well outnumbered by Turkish settlers. The Cyprus problem is an an issue between Turkey and Cyprus; not Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. The TCs have left it too late to complain about Turkey. In fact, I imagine that Turkey seeing it has a problem with TC discontent will step up its efforts to Turkify occupied Cyprus, bring in more settlers, make more of them 'citizens' of the 'TRNC' and so on.

lastgreek said...

If all Cypriots, both those in free Cyprus and those in occupied northern Cyprus rise up en masse against the Turkish occupier, Erdogan will have to give a monkey's ass--because the world will now be watching.

Why not Cyprus next after the kook in Libya falls? Who knows, maybe the Kurds in Turkey will rise up to.

Hey, the idea is nothing to snicker at. Everything is possibe. I mean, who could have predicted that the Tunisian uprising--a surprise event in itself--would have a domino effect across north Africa and the Middle East?

Anonymous said...

1821 is drivel. For one they ONLY sourced scholars with anti-Hellenic views on Greeks.

1. William St.Clair;'s book is portrayed as a "masterpieces" but its literaled with errors. (e.g he claims to knwo what Greek's of the diaspora knew about ancient Greeks but he doesn't actually have a clue. A made up "fact")

2. Spiros Sofos is a nitwit far lefitst Greek that calls FYROM "Macedonians" and has writen on his blog Greece should "apologise" to FYROM (for kicking out the commies during the cold war???)

3. The Kraut scholar on Byzantine (a term invented by another Kraut to delegimize claim to Roman authority because the Germans claimed to be the real Romans) and Neohellenic studies (notice another sly word manipulation to attempt to redeine our identity) is a modern day Fallalayner (except this Nazi twat has replaced Slav with Albanian). In the video he claims if we did not speak Katharevousa we would speak Albanian. This is pure bullshit that completely ignrores the fact we actually speak time worn Greek (Demotic). Did the Philhellnes teach us to speak time worn Greek? It makes absolutely no sense.

I'm not a rightwing extremist but I fucking hate a fair chunk of Greek leftists. Not every one but lets be honest with ourselves it is leftists (to a man) that undermine Greece. They've destoryed Greece with their overspending with their obsession with minorities and even undermining their own heritage to be "comrades". (much like the Greek communist civil war when they though Stalin was a good idea)

Seriously I am so fed up with "Greeks" like this and seriously think Greeks need to start asking ourselves shoud we be parting ethnic ways with these anti-Hellenic twats. (like the Bulgarians split in two and formed "Macedonians")

They clearly don't care about preserving Hellenism. Islam, Hindi, Hari Krishna. Its all the same to them. They don't care if they speak Urdu or Greek. Don't care if Thessaloni is named "Solun". Don't care if Greece became annexed to Turkey again. All they care about is getting attention for foreign interests. They may be Greek citizens but they really don't have a Greek identity. We should stop supporting this anti-Hellenes (see Dimou who's even "proud" of it)

Anonymous said...

1821 is drivel. For one they ONLY sourced scholars with anti-Hellenic views on Greeks.

1. William St.Clair;'s book is portrayed as a "masterpieces" but its literaled with errors. (e.g he claims to knwo what Greek's of the diaspora knew about ancient Greeks but he doesn't actually have a clue. A made up "fact")

2. Spiros Sofos is a nitwit far lefitst Greek that calls FYROM "Macedonians" and has writen on his blog Greece should "apologise" to FYROM for kicking out the commies during the cold war.

3. The Kraut scholar on Byzantine (a term invented by another Kraut) and Neohellenic studies (notice another attemt to redeine our identity) is a modern day Fallalayner (except this Nazi twat has replaced Slav with Albanian). In the video he claims if we did not speak Katharevousa we would speak Albanian. This is pure bullshit that completely ignrores the fact we speak time worn Greeek (Demotic). Did the Philhellnes teach us to speak time worn Greek? It makes absolutely no sense.

I'm not a rightwing extremist but I fucking hate a fair chunk of Greek leftists. Not every one but lets be honest with ourselves it is leftists (to a man) that undermine Greece. They've destoryed Greece with their overspending with their obsession with minorities and even undermining their own heritage to be "comrades". (much like the Greek communist civil war when they though Stalin was a good idea)

Seriously I am so fed up with "Greeks" like this and seriously think Greeks need to start asking ourselves shoud we be parting ethnic ways with these anti-Hellenic twats. (like the Bulgarians split in two and formed "Macedonians")

They clearly don't care about preserving Hellenism. Islam, Hindi, Hari Krishna. Its all the same to them. They don't care if they speak Urdu or Greek. Don't care if Thessaloni is named "Solun". Don't care if Greece became annexed to Turkey again. All they care about is getting attention for foreign interests. They may be Greek citizens but they really don't have a Greek identity.

Anonymous said...

@John Akritas

The philosophy of (some) leftist Greeks leads them to follow the collective will. Thus the narrative of their identity tends to be whatever the collective tells them it should on any given day (why they betrayed Greece during the Greek civil war.) They simply cannot be trusted to protect Hellenism because they prioritize being a "comrade" ahead of Hellenism.

I believe in free speech but I also believe in free listening too.
Therefore I think Greeks should consider boycotting Skai after broadcasting such extreme anti-Hellenic views (i.e. do not watch their programming and denounce any Greek that participated in 1821)

If enough Greeks don't start strongly protecting their heritage and denouncing these post modernists pseudo-intellectual flakes undermining Greece (especially during name dispute negotiations)... there is a possibility it will eventually cause another civil war in Greece (which Greece's enemies want to encourage of course)

Therefore I sincerely think that Greeks should start preparing for a worse case scenario and be building Hellenic institutions and relationships that explicitly completely EXCLUDE neo-hellenist participation (and focus on ancient Hellenic philosophy study rather than religion).

Furthermore, if necessary, we should prepared to part ethnic ways with the neo-hellenists (since they themselves say they do not feel related to Greeks and don't care for Hellenism).

I for one don't consider any "Greek" that doesn't protect Hellenism a "Greek". Despite they call themselves "Greek" they are simply Greek citizens with a non ethnic Greek identity. (much like say any Turks or someone Chinese living in Greece) We are literally in a differently defined ethnic group than them (despite the confusion of having the same name)

However we should be careful not to allow enemies of Hellenism the opportunity to label us racists (e.g. like the fascist clowns of Golden Dawn that undermine Greeks with their antics). Our language should be the language of human rights not hate.

I do not believe in pure races (no ethnic group is pure. DNA does not lie) and Greeks have Hellenized over the ages (like every nation mixes). We also shouldn't be afraid to continue to Hellenize (for those that voluntarily wish to Hellenize themselves because they love Greece) Eventually their children will mix with Greeks and become part of the common Greek culture (i.e. no different than any Greek)

That said, I have no doubts in my mind we are biologically related to ancient Greek populations and have far more in common with ancient Greeks than our smug patronizing critics have in common with their claimed ancestors. (that confuse their massive adoption of Hellenism with their own abandoned cultures then have the audacity to claim we don't have things in common with our ancestors)

For 4000 plus years some form of what we roughly call Hellenization has been part of Greece. We are not only Greeks bit like the last Emperor of Roman Greece stated... we are also Guardians of Greece. I will not be the generation that forgets. Hellenism must go on.

Anonymous said...

Incidentally, I live and grew up in the diaspora (Canada). I see myself as Greek first but having grown up in another country also gives me the eyes to see Greece from a slightly different angle.

In my opinion Greeks have to stop voting for leftist parties that don't strongly support Greece . The communists and parties like Drasi are anti-Hellenic idiots. Listening to the hysteria of anti-business anti-Hellenic leftists like this for the last 30 years has lead to Greece's current problems ("facism facism" is their answer to anyone that questions their views)

The rightwing dictatorship was a bad idea, but that doesn't make the other extreme correct either. Vote Nea Democratia not leftists (unless the leftists are strongly pro-Hellenism). Do not vote Golden Dawn (racist nazis that hurt Greece... much like Hitler hurt Germany).

Maybe if some Greek is listening our there please consider forming a a new Greek national party specifically geared to promoting both business in Greeec and Hellenism (without resorting to racism). One of the goals of the party should be denouncing neo-Hellenists.

In my opinion, the trick is just calling out neo-Hellenists as racists against Greeks just like those very same smug neo-Hellenists self-righteously try to do to any Greek that questions their views. They want their own "neo-hellenic" identity, they want respect FYROM's "macedonian" identity, they want respect for other minorities (including people that claim Moses talked to a burning bush and Allah is a "prophet")..but then don't respect our identity as individuals that identity with Hellenism? Pretty weak logic.

Also it is important not to be xenophobic and work with other minorities in helping human rights in Greece. At the moment the neo-Hellenists are the only voice of minorities in Greece (which they pit against us like that clown at Helsinki Greece does).

However we should only work with minorities that also support Hellenism with vocal statements of support against neo-hellenists as racists and statements against FYROM nationalists trying to steal our identity. (in exchange for helping them integrate into Greece)

If Hellenists become the force for human rights in Greece then the neo-Hellenists will be demoted into into fringe extremist political crackpots.

anilyuce said...

Hi everyone,
I would really like to watch this series, but unfortunately I don't understand Greek. Does anyone know where I can find the subtitles in English, French or Turkish? Thanks!

Christopher said...

Two comments. To say that the revolution didn't actually start at Agia Lavra, but instead at Kalamata or Aeropolis, is not to say that there never was a revolotuion or that everything else we've been taught is a lie. Just that some information that's been handed down is mistaken. Second, to describe the massacre at Tripoliza, and elsewhere, is not to proclaim that any one massacre is 'equivalent' to any other massacre, or make it any less so. All history is a selection, and '1821' does mention the slaughter of Greeks in Asia Minor.

Loukas Leon said...

Very important looking book to be released in 2015.

The Origins of Hellenic Identity: Philosophy and Ideology between Late Byzantium and Modern Greece

Description:

"This book addresses, for the first time within the compass of a single volume, the issue of the formation of Modern Greek identity in such a way as to connect a period traditionally addressed by Byzantinists (the 15th century) with the early modern and modern periods down to the middle of the 20th century. Within the post-modern context it has commonly been assumed that notions of Modern Greek identity emerged in the nineteenth century as a by-product of the Enlightenment: in other words, that identity discourse is a construction of the State. Contrariwise, recent and current work on late Byzantium points to ideological, political and philosophical conceptualisations of Hellenic identity that are much older and which urge us to re-consider established views on the topic.

Unlike existing approaches to Modern Greek identity, this volume assumes two antithetical but complementary vantage points. One takes us forward from the 15th to the 20th century; the other reverses the angle by moving backward from the 20th century to late Byzantium. The former traces a process of identity formation; the latter sheds light on a process of reflection upon Hellenism."

https://www.academia.edu/7279652/_ed._The_Origins_of_Hellenic_Identity_Philosophy_and_Ideology_between_Late_Byzantium_and_Modern_Greece

Hermes said...

Loukas, Sinossiouglu is a brilliant academic. His book Radical Platonism in Late Byzantium was a real eye opener.